Can You Trust AI for Travel Planning & Shocking Airline Secrets

Join us as we discuss the role of AI in travel planning and whether it can be trusted to handle the complexities of crafting the perfect trip. We also delve into the realities faced by flight attendants, including low pay and surprising insider secrets about airline food and water safety.

Podcast Season Update and Fall Preview

Mike Putman: Welcome to No Tourists Allowed. We've got a lot of good stuff to cover with you guys today, so thanks for tuning in. We are wrapping up our summer season. We're going to take a few weeks off and start back up in early October. It's been a really busy summer for me traveling. I know for you as well, James.

James Ferrara: Absolutely. And Mike, when we come back in the fall, we've got an incredible lineup of topics and some guests on the podcast. We're going to be bringing back some of the folks we didn't get in this past year. We've got a big travel editor coming. We've got the space travel people coming to join us. I've got a few other ideas up my sleeve, a few folks we want to talk to. I have an African travel specialist, a luxury safari specialist that I'd like to bring on. I'm really looking forward to getting out of summer mode and back into No Tourists Allowed mode at the beginning of October.

The Impact of AI on Vacation Planning

Mike Putman: We both have a little bit of travel to do between now and then, and maybe we can share some of those stories when we return. I wanted to start off by putting up a question for you and myself to discuss. It's something that I'm sure you've heard many times from listeners or clients. The question is: should I really trust using all the travel AI apps out there to plan my vacation? There's a ton of them. As investors and as people who have our finger on the pulse in the travel business, we see these. I probably see a new one every week, people looking to raise money or wanting to partner with our businesses. What are your thoughts on that, James?

James Ferrara: I have a personal hashtag that I've used for years, which is hashtag don't ask a machine. That's because I believe that travel is very human. It's very emotional, very opinionated, and very customized for people. It is sometimes the most significant expense you can have in a year. It's precious time with your family and precious time away from work. For all of those reasons, I don't think you trust a machine with those kinds of arrangements. When I say luxury, I want to know the person I'm talking to understands what I mean by luxury. It's not just a word. Luxury to me is different than luxury to you. I want the care and the personal attention. But technology changes, and I'm not a person to fear technology. I believe you seize technology and you make the most out of it. We're in a world now where I think technology can do some of the work. Really for me, it's a matter of what stage you're using the technology at. At the beginning, AI can save you time and effort in narrowing down your interests and choices. Ultimately, your choices need to be made with a professional travel advisor, collaborating with another human being who understands you and cares about you and will ultimately make the arrangements. I don't think you should go it alone with just the technology.

Mike Putman: I definitely concur. There are different parts of the travel experience that AI handles or says they're going to handle for you. I've seen some interesting information about these recommendation engines. Oftentimes you'll ask it a question, like where should I go for a unique experience? While they'll come back with what I would say is a quality response, the questions are just not qualified enough. I happened to look at one today and the interesting places it recommended were Bhutan, which is an interesting place, but it's got a lot of issues. There are a lot of people that won't go there because of their political or sociological views. It recommended the country of Georgia and some other things that were just without asking a human. An agent would ask the next question. James, if I said I want to go somewhere interesting, what would be your next question?

James Ferrara: How adventurous are you? And what is your appetite for risk?

Mike Putman: Exactly. I would qualify you in a way. The art of this new technology is really in the prompt. It is in asking the question and prompting a response in a very specific way. It takes a bit of art, and I don't think most people are prepared for that yet. I don't think that the computer programmers who are trying to solve these things are the right people to solve it. They might be the right people to code, but I don't think they're the right people to ultimately provide the direction needed for booking something so complex. Systems will get there eventually, but they're certainly not there today. I also happened to run into an AI agent this week. The way an agent works is at a deeper level than just single prompts. It actually learns about your likes and dislikes. Some will go to the end and actually make a transaction for you if you give them authorization and allow them to learn your credit card number. This was pretty spooky. I went through a demo this week for booking an airline ticket from San Francisco to New York. The number of steps it went through and the number of flaws that I saw in it, thinking that some people are already moving to using these AI agents to buy things on their behalf, seemed a little bit downtime. This is where being an early adopter might be at your own peril, because there's a lot that can go wrong with these things, especially if you give them access to utilize your credit card number. They have gotten the agents far enough where they can go and make purchases with some simple instruction. I would say buyer beware.

James Ferrara: The early results I've seen lack nuance. In a harsher review, they lack reality. The earliest products that we looked at together would come back with suggested itineraries that were really impossible to fulfill. They'd have you crisscrossing Venice with all its crowds two or three times in a day to try to get in three activities that no travel agent or tour guide would recommend you try to do. It's just impossible to get done. The systems didn't seem to understand the wait times or the travel times, or what made sense to do on arrival day when you may be tired, or on departure day when you have to get to the airport. Those logistics of travel are very difficult for these algorithms to understand. We're already into a second generation, and I've seen improvement around this, but still not enough to trust on its own. When travel advisors at my company come to me and ask if they will be replaced by AI, my answer is no. You cannot be replaced by AI with all of your human compassion and understanding. But you might be replaced by another travel advisor using AI. AI is a tool for travel advisors and for customers to get us part of the way, to provide a save time, and to narrow the field of choices. But then either you personally, as a very informed traveler, have to make some human decisions or you need a human travel advisor to help you.

The Economic Realities for Flight Attendants

Mike Putman: That's a good wrap-up for that conversation. Moving on to other stories, there was an interesting article in the Washington Post this week about flight attendants titled "Barely Surviving." Some flight attendants are facing homelessness and hunger, which is unfortunate. On one side, this is a supply and demand thing. We've got people growing up, especially young ladies, wanting the glamorous life of being a flight attendant and traveling the world for free. You probably have an oversupply of that. The airlines understand it and see waiting lists of people that want to take a job, and therefore they are willing to pay bottom of the barrel rates to get these folks in. Oftentimes these flight attendants have to spend their own time getting to trainings and doing their own trainings before they're certified with no compensation. The projected pay of a first-year flight attendant is $23,000 a year before taxes and insurance.

James Ferrara: That's poverty.

Mike Putman: Exactly. It is poverty. A lot of these flight attendants are working a seven-hour shift. In general, flight attendants don't get paid unless they're flying. If their flight gets delayed or if they're waiting, they have to board early to make sure everything's in order, and some of that is done without pay. It's really flight time mainly that they're getting paid for. If they work seven hours and they're making $23,000 a year, it's $11.50 an hour. They're making $80 a shift in that example. You just can't live off of that. A lot of them are getting off a seven-hour shift and then driving an Uber for twelve hours until their next shift comes aboard and then they go straight into flying again. These are people that have a huge responsibility for our safety and comfort as we fly on these planes all over the world.

James Ferrara: That explains a lot. The whole ecosystem mystifies. The idea that it's a glamorous job at all anymore is gone. In the 1960s, people were dressing up in suits and ties to fly, and it was only very affluent people who could fly. It was a whole different experience. Now I observe that as cabin crew, you spend a lot of your time dealing with abuse. It does not seem to me to be a glamorous job, and certainly not for low pay. I do agree that the pull has a lot to do with travel. I know people who work for the airlines and if they log one shift in a month, that maintains their status to fly free and to standby on flights and travel the world for next to nothing. They get companion passes so they can bring people with them. There are a lot of perks here that are clearly part of the story. It's the aspiration to advance and to become a more senior person. Then you get to pick and choose. You get the more glamorous jobs, which are the international flights. It is the same with pilots too. You work your way up from a regional jet service up to an international pilot who's at the top of the food chain. I don't like to hear of anyone being underpaid. You get what you pay for when it comes to employees. An unhappy employee cannot provide good customer service, and that's part of what's wrong with the airlines today. I know I'm an airline basher. I'm always here bashing airlines. I'm surprised I haven't been run out of town on a rail. But part of the problem is they have unhappy employees.

Mike Putman: As these flight attendants gain experience, they have the opportunity to make more money. What was really interesting about the article is that hourly rates increase by experience until you hit what they consider the top tier ceiling, which is between thirteen and twenty-one years. Once you provide thirteen or twenty-one years of service, then you reach top pay. Here is the top pay by airline according to this article. At Frontier Airlines, top pay for someone with at least 13 years of experience is $54,000. Top pay at JetBlue is $58,167. Alaska is $60,000. They're all about the same from there, with the exception of Delta. Delta's top pay is $71,000. Could you imagine working somewhere for twenty years and that is the top? It's not an easy job. These folks are on their feet and they're dealing with a different class of people. Years ago, you didn't have to try to carry all your bags on and they weren't selling airline tickets for a hundred dollars one way across the country. They've pulled a lot of people off buses and trains and put them on airplanes because of the cost.

James Ferrara: Our job is to make travel appealing, and here we are talking about the underbelly of travel, which is mostly the airlines. It's the reality, though. We're being real with everyone. My advice here is just moderate your expectations when it comes to airline travel. It just is the bus travel of the new world.

Mike Putman: For our listeners, just be patient. Understand where these people are coming from. It might be a cool job to get to fly everywhere, but if you can't afford to be anywhere and you're living out of your car like some of these folks are, just be respectful. Give them more leeway if they make a bad decision. Don't fly off the handle like we see on social media. That's awful.

Insider Advice and Safety Tips from Cabin Crews

James Ferrara: I'll tell you, though, if you play it right, the cabin crew can be the source of really good information. Most of them are frequent travelers. If you're heading to Paris, that cabin crew probably flies to Paris constantly and spends a lot of time there overnighting or spending weekends there. They can be a great source of information about the destination, fun places to go, and great places to eat. Recently there was another article where cabin crew gave advice on what not to eat on the airplane. They wouldn't give their names because they have to be careful. The major advice had to do with the water supply on the plane. If you're being served bottled water, that's great, but you should see it come out of the bottle. They should pour it right there in the aisle. If they come down the aisle with a tray of plastic cups of water, you should ask if it's bottled water or not. The planes are equipped with big tap water tanks. Those tanks are filled through a certain port on the outside of the plane. Water is circulated through pipes in the plane to the taps in the galleys. According to the flight crews, these ports, tanks, and pipes are not adequately maintained. They're not cleaned on a regular enough basis, especially if you're flying international carriers whose standards are different. There's just too much opportunity for the water to develop impurities and bacteria. This is true of coffee and tea served on planes because those are definitely made with the tap system water. In the words of these flight attendants, they would never drink coffee or tea from the plane. I think that's very interesting.

Mike Putman: I think there's a cross-contamination possibility too, because these ports are very close to the ports where water comes out of the plane. You guys can figure out the reason why it's coming out. But you want to be really careful. James, were there any other food items that they suggested not to eat?

James Ferrara: Apparently refrigeration and cooking are very limited on the planes. A specific food that I thought was interesting and is often appealing to me are these little cheese and fruit trays. I don't like to eat the unhealthy stuff. I'm not going to get a burger on the plane or eat chips. I will eat a fruit and cheese platter because that sounds healthy to me. But what I learned from this article is that because refrigeration is limited, they're actually using shelf-stable products like fruit and cheese that's highly processed so that it doesn't have to be refrigerated. It is actually very unhealthy for you because of the processing. The other thing is they said they just can't control cooking temperature. Any entree that is like a steak or fillet of beef, fish, or chicken is likely to get grossly overcooked. It's just the only way they can do it on there. They suggested you shy away from those. Again, that's not necessarily dangerous. It's just not a pleasant experience.

Mike Putman: On the last couple of international flights I've had, I've had some really nice fish dishes.

James Ferrara: International tends to be better. The fares are higher so they can spend more money per person on the food. I have seen reports listing the airlines by how much money per passenger they spent on food. On the international side, it's the big eastern airlines like Cathay Pacific, Singapore, and Etihad Airways that usually come out at the top with the most expensive ingredients and the best food. Domestically, it's been a while, but Delta always used to be at the top by several dollars more per person spent on the ingredients. Delta's a quality airline for sure.

Mike Putman: I don't even think there are meals served anymore domestically unless you're in first class.

James Ferrara: Well, I just revealed my traveling habits.

Upcoming Travel Plans and Destinations

Mike Putman: What kind of plans you got coming up for the next couple of weeks, James?

James Ferrara: I just came back from Orlando. I had a trip down to Orlando overlooking Disney Springs and Epcot at the famous Orlando World Center Marriott, which is an enormous hotel with a big water park and laser show at night. I was there for an event. A passing thunderstorm, which was biblical in proportion, was much more interesting than the laser show because there was lightning all over the place. It was raining so hard that you couldn't see. I was in and out very quickly in Orlando and had one of those annoying experiences. Even though I have CLEAR Plus and TSA PreCheck, I get on the line and Orlando can be a very busy airport with long lines. I'm relieved to get on my CLEAR Plus line and it looks like I'm going to blow right through, and of course, the machine breaks down. The manager decides to make it a teachable moment for the crew. He pulls the whole crew together around the screen and has a manual out. Meanwhile, we're all standing there for twenty minutes with no movement. I'm watching people who did not have CLEAR Plus or TSA on some other line just passing me by. That was a little frustrating. I am going up to Boston for the holiday weekend. My son is going back to university. The interesting thing there is finding the right hotel room. Because we like to have my son with us, we want a suite. Finding a suite that has two full bathrooms and sleeping for three adults is much harder than you might think. It's interesting how detailed you sometimes need to get about the accommodations, but how hard it can be to get those details. It's not clear on the hotel's website if that couch is actually a fold-out bed or if the bathroom is a full bathroom. We have a lot of work to do in the travel industry around standardizing this data around hotel accommodations. Even if you're going directly to the hotel's website, you still literally have to pick up the phone and talk to someone. Sometimes you're talking to a central reservation number and even they can't answer the question. I am getting on Princess Cruises to Canada and New England, which is an itinerary I've always wanted to do. It goes up to Halifax, Nova Scotia, Saint John, Newport, Rhode Island, and Maine. I'm really looking forward to that. You go in the fall when the leaves are changing far up north like that, so it's very pretty. It's sweater weather.

Mike Putman: How did they get around the rule that wouldn't allow foreign-flagged ships to stop more than once in the U.S. without an international port?

James Ferrara: I know that Princess owns the cruise ships that cruise Hawaii and they are actually U.S. flagged so that they can stop in multiple ports. On this one, they hit an international port in between domestic ports. This is the Jones Act you're referring to. I'm impressed you knew that. [Could not verify with context] will be proud of you.

Mike Putman: What about you?

James Ferrara: I have a couple of industry events to travel to and then a golf tournament. Then we're going to Sorrento together in the fall with a small group of two or three hundred people. We are flying into Naples, so we'll be in southern Italy, which is where part of my family comes from. It is a really spectacular place. I'm looking forward to that. I think I have a couple of trips in between. I've got London and I've got Napa Valley to one of the Auberge Resorts Collection later on in September and October. In the travel industry, we're out on the road a lot in the fall. You'll be hearing from Mike and me from all over the place. October and November are busy travel months.

Mike Putman: Well, great. Let's wrap up for today's show. I want to thank everyone for tuning in and being a faithful listener and follower. Please tell your friends and families to join. They can find us at notouristsallowed.com or wherever they get their podcasts. For now, I'm signing off and we'll look forward to speaking to you again in October.

James Ferrara: Thank you everybody.

END TRANSCRIPT