How To Navigate The Airline Chaos, plus Dozens of New Cruise Ships with CLIA’s Charles Sylvia

Thousand of flights delayed or canceled, fares have risen at a record pace, long lines snarl up airports! Why? How long will this go on? In this episode, experts talk about how to avoid the frustration and still find the deals for Summer travel. Also, special guest Charles Sylvia joins us for the insider’s news on cruising and the launches of dozens of new cruise ships. Charles is the Vice President of Industry and Trade Relations with Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA). Charles has had a decades-long career in cruise sales and marketing as a front-line travel agent at a brick-and-mortar agency in his hometown near Cape Cod, MA. In his role at CLIA, Charles now champions the interests of more than 46,500 travel agency owners and advisors, and is the face of the cruise industry to the travel trade.

Introduction to No Tourists Allowed

Mike Putman: Welcome to No Tourists Allowed, a podcast where two recognized travel industry executives as well as experts with a combined 69 years on the inside of travel and technology give up their secrets to the thing everyone wants to do: travel better, pay less, and see more of the world. Enjoy today's episode. We appreciate you listening in. I'm Mike Putman.

James Ferrara: And I'm James Ferrara. Welcome, everyone. We're so excited you could be with us. You must be really avid travelers to be with us. We're very excited about putting this together. This production has been months in the working, and I’m glad to finally get this thing airborne.

Mike Putman: I think you'll find that we're going to have a really nice journey together. We’ve got some very interesting guests already lined up, and we're in discussion with other guests who are basically friends of ours in the industry. These are executives from suppliers such as cruise lines, tour operators, and airlines that will give you a really nice perspective on what it's like to be on the inside of travel.

James Ferrara: This is information that it would be hard for travelers to find elsewhere. It's not the same old usual stuff. We're actually bringing news of new resorts, new cruise ships, and the travel industry, and this will be maybe the first place you've heard it.

Meet Your Hosts: Mike Putman and James Ferrara

Mike Putman: For those of you who don't know us, let’s give a little bit of background on each of us. My name is Mike Putman. I live in Greenville, South Carolina. I have been in the travel industry for thirty-six years. I'm not that old; I just started very early. I started when I was nineteen with a family-owned brick-and-mortar company. I built that up into one of the larger regional travel agencies in the Southeast. From there, I built a website that was actually the first online booking site for complex travel. Instead of just selling airline tickets or hotels individually, we sold complex tours and cruises. I built that up for several years and eventually sold that to a company called Amadeus in Telefónica de España, which was rolling a bunch of online travel companies together. I stayed with that company for three years after the buyout. We were private-labeling other companies' websites. People like Walmart and Sam's Club came to us and said, "Hey, we want a travel website." So we built and operated travel websites under their brands. We had six thousand of those travel websites at one point and became the fourth largest online travel company in the world in that roll-up. From that point, I spent a good bit of time doing consulting for travel suppliers and also some brands like Louis Vuitton Moët Hennessy. They wanted to build a cruise product, so I helped them get that off the ground and hire a managing director to run that operation. Then I ventured into the travel club space, which I'll share much more about over other episodes. Currently, my focus is building and operating travel clubs for other companies, as well as working with James's company.

James Ferrara: Mike, you thwarted my plan. When the announcer said that we had sixty-nine years of combined experience, I was going to say nine of those were mine and the rest were yours. I started out as a frontline travel advisor. To this day, I still sell travel to a select group of customers just to keep my hands in. I went on to co-found and run what is now a billion-dollar travel organization, including InteleTravel.com, which is the world's largest and oldest host travel agency. We work through a network of independent travel advisors. We currently have 75,000 independent advisors under contract to us, principally in the United States, but also in the Caribbean, Mexico, and a group of about eleven thousand in the United Kingdom. We sell travel through those advisors to millions of customers each year. We sell a complete range of experiences: cruises, vacations, air, car, hotel, vacation rentals, Airbnb-style apartments, travel insurance, and all-inclusive resorts. Our organization sells over 30,000 vacations a month. It gives me a great view into what travelers are interested in, where they're going, and where the deals are. Mike and I have partnered on a number of things; we own some technology together in the travel industry. I travel and speak frequently on technology, trends, and the future of the travel industry. I also spend a good bit of time on television and in print because those outlets come to me for thoughts on what's happening.

Navigating Current Travel Disruptions

Mike Putman: You've been really busy this week with quite a few interviews. Why don't you share with our audience what those interviews have been about?

James Ferrara: In the last couple of days, I've been in USA Today, on CBS News, Fox News, the BBC, Cheddar News, and Newsy. There's been quite a lot of activity because we are in a pattern of having these "travel Armageddon" weekends, particularly around airline arrangements and flights. On a recent weekend in the U.S., twenty thousand flights were affected. There are a lot of frustrated and unhappy travelers out there when they get caught up in these things. The news outlets love a good travel nightmare. Besides talking about what's happening—which is really related to staffing—we need more pilots and more air traffic control people as a result of the pandemic. We've lost half the world's pilots out of the system. There's also this surging demand for travel. No one predicted that travelers would be so quick to get back out there, so no one was prepared. No one had a crystal ball. The news outlets focus on the terror of what's happening and not enough on what you can do as a traveler to avoid it. Mike, you and I can give that advice to people. A few of the best outlets have given me some time to do that, and it would be great to share some of those tips here.

Supply, Demand, and Post-Pandemic Realities

Mike Putman: We're at an inflection point post-COVID where there's been so much built-up demand. People feel that they're entitled to a vacation, and I don't disagree with them. Travel is just like any other industry; it's a supply and demand situation. During COVID, when demand was low, we had a lot of supply. Airlines decommissioned aircraft; you've probably seen pictures of these vast wastelands of aircraft in Arizona or New Mexico. Hundreds of giant airplanes are sitting around gathering dust. As demand increased, it takes time to get those planes back in service because you can't just turn the key and begin flying again. In addition to that, you have this pilot issue. Many pilots have been furloughed and you have to bring them back. There are training issues and required annual maintenance you have to do on these aircraft. So there are a lot of things that have compounded. I don't think anyone really thought the demand was going to be so great. As demand is high and supply is lower than normal, you see a big spike in prices. I'm seeing airline tickets twenty, thirty, or even forty percent higher than they were this time last year. It's all across the board.

James Ferrara: I think fifty percent now is the average; that's the latest I've seen. We also have fuel that's forty-four percent higher than it was last year, and that affects airline pricing as well. Airlines are in the commodities trading game in terms of buying futures for fuel. People don't realize that in addition to getting planes back in the system, it takes time to get highly skilled workers like air traffic controllers or pilots back into the system. If pilots are out of work for 90 days or more, they have to be retrained and re-certified. That involves time in simulators, and there are only so many simulators available in the country. It could take many months to get a pilot recertified. There are also unskilled workers missing from the system who have new priorities after coming through the pandemic. Instead of going through the trouble of getting to the airport, parking, buying uniforms, and working for a big multinational corporation, you could go down the street and start an entry-level job at a fast-food restaurant for twenty-five dollars an hour. There's a drain on labor out of the system, and it's going to take time for all of these things to level out. I'm often asked how long this will go on. This is what the summer is going to look like. Into the fall, I think the system will equalize to the point where we're back to something that looks like normal.

Expert Advice for Managing Travel Disruptions

Mike Putman: Let's turn the page and talk a little bit about what our listeners can do if they have travel plans already. These cancellations are going to continue to happen.

James Ferrara: Absolutely true. Since we're seeing them as these big weekend meltdowns, the first piece of advice is: don't travel on the weekends if you can. By weekends, we mean basically Friday to Monday. If you can travel Tuesday, Wednesday, or even into Thursday, your likelihood of avoiding these issues gets greater. It extends to hours, too. Try to travel off-peak hours. Flexibility in travel always works in your favor. If you have a trip planned and you get a notification from your airline or your travel agent, you need to know your rights. If the notification says you were on a one o’clock flight and now they’re putting you on a three o’clock flight, the airlines have to offer to rebook you. If your flight is canceled or delayed for an inordinate amount of time, they have to rebook you. But you don't have to accept the rebooking. Some airlines are using artificial intelligence and automation, and you're winding up with crazy rebookings where it's three days away. It might be some outrageous connection with 19 hours on the ground. Travelers need to understand that they can refuse that rebooking, and then the airline has to refund them in full for their ticket. But here's the catch on that, Mike. If I say no to the rebooking, I've got the money, but I've got to book a last-minute plane ticket. What are the chances that the amount of money I paid two or three months ago is going to be enough to cover a same-day purchase now to get out of that airport?

Mike Putman: The answer is probably not. But you do have an additional path. Just because the airlines automatically rebook you, you don't have to accept that. You have the right to request a refund, but you also have the right to require them to rebook you on something reasonable. If you feel the choices they've given you are unreasonable—like waiting three days—there might be cases where that really is the best outcome, though that's highly unlikely. You can demand to be put on another flight operated by that airline as well. The day before, certainly check your itinerary. Use the apps provided by the airline or your travel agent to re-verify that those flights are on time. If something changes, remember you have rights, and you would probably need to go in and make your seat selection again.

James Ferrara: I would even drill down and say once your flight is booked, join the frequent flyer program and download the app. Allow notifications and SMS texting. This way you have the best chance of getting information as soon as the airline knows they're making a change. Airlines are famous for not making those decisions until you're at the airport, but it does increase your chances. Definitely check your status before going to the airport. When you make your reservations, leave a little more buffer time than you might usually.

Mike Putman: There are some positive outcomes, too. I have a friend traveling to the West Coast and an airline canceled a flight and rebooked him on a later flight which was two hours later. They put him in first class because they didn't have any coach seats. The ultimate advice is to work with a professional travel advisor. For the most part, a professional travel advisor doesn't cost you anything, and now you've got someone in your corner. If you're stuck at the airport, you've got someone knowledgeable who can help you.

James Ferrara: It gives you a safety net. It gives you another outlet to look for advice and someone to act as an ombudsman for yourself.

Special Guest: Charles Sylvia from CLIA

Mike Putman: Next week we've got a very special guest, Mr. Donnie Dawson, who is the Deputy Chairman for the Jamaica Tourist Board. I've known Donnie for 20-plus years. He'll be joining us and I think you'll find the information he provides really enlightening.

James Ferrara: Talk about an insider view of Jamaica. He's been inside that organization for a few decades. He has shared the Jamaica story globally. I look forward to having him. These are just the early guests from a great lineup.

Mike Putman: James, quite a good conversation we're having, but we do have a special guest waiting on the line. This man has been around the cruise business for quite some time. He's a legend in the travel industry, Mr. Charles Sylvia.

James Ferrara: I'm so excited to have Charlie, not just for himself, but because of his message about cruise. People still carry a lot of misconceptions about cruising, and Charlie's got insider news. He is the Vice President of Industry and Trade Relations with the Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA), which is the marketing and education arm of the cruise industry. Charlie's been selling cruises for almost three decades. He specialized in groups and has been on the leisure and corporate side of the business. Charlie's job now at CLIA has been to champion the North American cruise industry. He speaks to almost fifty thousand travel agency owners and members of CLIA. Welcome, Charles Sylvia.

Charles Sylvia: James, thank you so much for that wonderful introduction.

The Resurgence and Growth of the Cruise Industry

James Ferrara: Charlie, there is so much going on in cruise that we just had to have you. We really want to talk about looking forward. What's happening now, and what's going to be happening later this year and next year?

Charles Sylvia: The word that I keep at the top of mind is resilience. The cruise industry really has shown an incredibly strong resilience. We're more than fifty years old as an industry—relatively young—and we are roaring back to operations. By mid-to-late summer of 2022, we will be back globally at 100% of cruise ship operation. That is a wonderful testament to the resilience of our industry and always putting people first.

James Ferrara: I've heard from Carnival that they're already back to a hundred percent. That is amazing news. The last couple of years, there were some big ships that were supposed to be coming out and they got delayed. Now, there are dozens of new ships.

Charles Sylvia: I was looking at the order book this morning. When you build a cruise ship, you need to develop a memorandum of understanding three, five, or seven years in advance to get a production slot with one of the shipyards. Right now, we have seventy-five ships on order as an industry worldwide, and that represents more than a forty-eight billion dollar investment. In 2022 alone, we've got nineteen brand-new ships. When I say ships, I'm talking strictly ocean-going cruise ships. I'm not talking about the dozens of river cruise vessels, expedition ships, and coastal ships. These nineteen ships represent ten billion dollars. When all is said and done, we will have a net of more than 169,000 additional beds available as we introduce all of these new ships. Not one slot was given up by any cruise line in the past two and a half years.

Scale and Innovation in Modern Cruise Ships

Mike Putman: That's great news because this is the lifeblood of getting new people on cruise ships. For those who haven't been on a cruise, can you put into context how big and long they are?

Charles Sylvia: When I was on the front line as a travel advisor, I'd invariably get the comment, "Well, I feel claustrophobic or confined." It's impossible to feel that way because these ships are a fifth of a mile long. Many of them are more than twelve, fourteen, or sixteen stories tall. They are literally floating resorts. When you're standing alongside at a port, you're looking at a fifteen-story building above the waterline that is approximately a fifth of a mile long.

James Ferrara: People think three, four, five thousand passengers and think there will be lines. My personal experience on the Oasis-class ships for Royal Caribbean is that when the elevator doors open, there's nobody in them. I never feel overwhelmed or crowded.

Charles Sylvia: That's because of the space ratio. Travel advisors know what a space ratio is. I have the unfortunate duty of having to be on every maiden voyage or naming ceremony. I can't tell you how many times I have been aboard the world's largest cruise ship. Even with a full manifest of six or eight thousand people, you're looking around in the corridors and elevator lobbies and you're by yourself. It's because many of the ships are large enough that the number of people doesn't make a big difference in the traffic flow. It's also important to note that there are ships of every size and shape. We've got mega-ships, but we also have beautiful expedition ships and river cruise ships that hold hundreds of people, or coastal ships that hold about a hundred people.

James Ferrara: Every time I encounter a traveler who says they did not enjoy a cruise, it turns out they were on the wrong ship and the wrong itinerary. That's the value of using a professional travel advisor. Charlie, new hardware comes along with new features and new ideas, right?

Charles Sylvia: The innovations are incredible. We're all accustomed to the FlowRiders and surfing simulators. You've got skydiving simulators and ice skating rinks. The Edge-series of Celebrity ships has the Magic Carpet, a deck that goes up and down the ship. You're buying an experience; you're investing in recreation. Why not sit down with a CLIA-certified travel advisor who can learn about your needs in a consultative relationship? They're able to match you up with the right brand and the right class of ship.

James Ferrara: My favorite innovation—because I'm such a boy—is go-karts. I just love those go-kart tracks. It's so much fun and you go out over the side of the deck.

Charles Sylvia: Norwegian Prima is coming out this summer with a three-deck go-kart track. Also, don't forget Carnival Mardi Gras and the upcoming Celebration and Jubilee; they'll have the Bolt roller coasters on the top deck. There truly is something for everyone.

Mike Putman: My favorite one is really low-tech. About 25 years ago, I was on a company trip and I told my friend to come along. We still talk about it today: a blackjack table overlooking the pool in the middle of the Caribbean with a bar right behind it. How can you beat the decadence of having your shirt off, getting a suntan, having a fruity cocktail, and playing blackjack?

James Ferrara: Now we know everyone's priorities. The rise of specialty dining is another one. I love being on mega-ships with twenty-five or thirty dining options: Italian, Japanese Teppanyaki, French. You never eat in the same place twice.

Charles Sylvia: We have evolved from the old style of cruising. Now you're starting to see cruise lines with multiple main dining rooms that are smaller and more intimate. They’re becoming a special experience unto themselves.

Onboard Technology and Environmental Initiatives

James Ferrara: With all this new hardware, there's also new technology both on board and under the ship, isn't there?

Charles Sylvia: I was just about to mention the Medallion at Princess Cruises, which is incredible. This wearable technology can unlock your stateroom door, but it also allows you to order food from anywhere on your app and they'll know exactly where you are and bring it to you.

James Ferrara: There’s facial recognition to smooth the boarding process, and while we're on technology, there’s also new technology for propulsion that has significant environmental value.

Charles Sylvia: We have twenty-six LNG-powered vessels on order. Liquefied natural gas is the cleanest fuel we could use for propulsion. The new Disney Wish is powered by LNG, as is the Carnival Celebration and MSC World Europa. In addition, 174 ships out of the fleet are equipped for shoreside power. They can be plugged into ports so they don't have to run their generators. We also have advanced wastewater treatment systems and exhaust gas cleaning systems on hundreds of ships. CLIA and our members are committed to pursuing net-zero carbon cruising by 2050. You can feel comfortable knowing that this industry takes very seriously our responsibility to the oceans and the ports of call.

Exceptional Service and Unbeatable Value

Mike Putman: When I was a child, my parents took me on cruises. I remember the service. I went on the Radisson Diamond inaugural sailing in Spain. A year later, I decided to go back again, leaving from another port. As I walked onto the ship, somebody greeted me and said, "Welcome back, Mr. Putman," without seeing my passport. I went to the bar the first night and the guy said, "Would you like a Dewar's and soda, Mr. Putman?" I hadn't been on the ship for a year.

Charles Sylvia: We talk so much about the hardware, but the ships are simply platforms for the real magic, which are the crew members. That's what truly makes cruising special.

James Ferrara: Mike thinks of service; I think of value. If I had to stay in a hotel and eat three meals a day and pay for entertainment, it would be a fraction of what you spend on a cruise.

Charles Sylvia: That's one of the reasons why our guest satisfaction index is so high. Eighty-three percent of cruisers say they will book their next cruise within a year. It is the biggest bang for the buck anyone will find.

Mike Putman: I love the convenience of unpacking once. Especially for people on the East Coast going to Hawaii; it’s quite a journey. If you take a cruise, you pack and unpack one time and see three or four islands.

Charles Sylvia: For those who want to learn more about cruising and everything we do to make sure you have a safe and wonderful experience, visit Cruising.org.

James Ferrara: Charlie, we really appreciate you being here. We really appreciate the work that CLIA does to train travel agents and represent the industry.

Charles Sylvia: Thank you, Mike, and thank you, James. It's been a wonderful experience.

Emerging Destinations and Hidden Gems

Mike Putman: James, I know you've been looking through the data of the past few weeks regarding where people are going. What kind of recommendations do you have?

James Ferrara: I sorted the bookings by destination in alphabetical order. I saw bookings to Alaska, Antalya in Turkey, Auckland, Barcelona, Belize, and Benidorm. Benidorm is a wildly popular beach resort in Spain. I also saw Biloxi, Mississippi. The most interesting one that popped out to me was Lake Bled in Slovenia. It’s near the Dalmatian Coast, which is kind of the quiet, unspoiled Mediterranean. It’s a dramatic location in the Alps. There are beaches on the lake, a famous historic pilgrimage church on an island in the center, and traditional wooden gondola-type ships. There are wineries and a thousand-year-old castle. In Slovenia, you're getting more for your money. How could you not love a town that has officially protected its cream pastry as its culinary specialty? There are actually laws about it and an annual feast to celebrate the pastry.

Mike Putman: I see your natural attraction to this destination right away. We'll be doing a good bit of traveling over the summer. We’ll be doing some of these broadcasts from remote locations in the future, too.

Closing Thoughts

James Ferrara: I leave for Mexico in a couple of days and I know you've got a cruise coming up.

Mike Putman: Thanks again for everyone listening to our first official podcast. Please spread the word about No Tourists Allowed. We'll be back next week with Donnie Dawson from the Jamaica Tourist Board.

James Ferrara: Thank you so much, everyone. Thanks for listening with us.