THE LOVE AFFAIR WITH RIVER CRUISE - WITH AMA WATERWAYS OWNER KRISTIN KARST.

Kristin Karst, co-owner of the award winning AMA Waterways, romances us with castles and Christmas Markets, vineyards and exotic jungles, as she explains the explosive growth of River Cruising in Europe, Asia and Africa. What’s included. What’s onboard. What’s to see. And how this intimate and luxurious travel experience stacks up against ocean cruising and land tours. We tease out her predictions for travel in 2023 - and as a bonus, a serious traveler’s tips for your next trip.

Plus, Deal Guru (and Millennial traveler) Jessica Deverson lands the big savings on Caribbean all-inclusive resorts like Sandals & Beaches, Secrets, Dreams, cruises from Royal Caribbean and AMA, and more!

Introduction to Episode Fourteen

Mike Putman: Welcome to No Tourists Allowed, a podcast where two recognized travel industry executives with a combined 69 years on the inside of travel and technology give up their secrets to the thing everyone wants to do: travel better, pay less, and see more of the world. Enjoy today's episode. Hello, I'm Mike Putman.

James Ferrara: And I'm James Ferrara. Welcome to our fourteenth episode of No Tourists Allowed. Mike, it's hard to believe we've been doing this for a few months now and we're at episode fourteen already.

Mike Putman: Mike, I'm so glad you keep count because I'm never really sure where we are. Of course, we have a special guest who I'll talk about in just a second. We have Jessica Deverson back with us with some great values. She's done the research and found some amazing deals this week in the marketplace. But also, we're going to talk to her a little bit about her own personal recent travels because she's our resident millennial. She is out there traveling authentically and with adventure. I want to be Jessica when I grow up. It's been a busy summer, though, I'll tell you, James. I know I've been on the road and you've been on the road. For me, it's been nice to be back home for a week now. Fall is in full session here in the Southeast. The leaves are turning. I took a nice drive up to Asheville, North Carolina, which is close to where I live, and the leaves were really popping. It's spectacular already, which is a little bit early for the leaves to be changing this time of year.

James Ferrara: And you and I were in Belfast, which was spectacular. We talked about it on our last episode. I spent a few days in London, which is like my second home and I know a favorite place of yours, too. I counted that in the month of October, I am looking at only nine days that I will be home. I've got a trip coming up to Helsinki, Finland. We've got trips down to Miami, Mike. You and I are meeting up at some events in Miami. I'm going to Sonoma Valley next week in California for a big travel industry event. This is why we're here.

Mike Putman: It's a busy time. October and November, especially for the travel industry, tend to be busy months when there are a lot of conferences and events. My November is equally as busy as your October. It is a lot of opportunities to learn more, to get out there with some of our customers, meet with our providers, and bring back more to our podcast. One thing I do want to make sure that we announce today—we've announced it through social media and at our website, notouristsallowed.com—is we have a new contest in place for our listeners. We're going to be giving away some really spectacular prizes and travel packages over the next few months. We've got our first contest in place. Just make sure that you go to notouristsallowed.com. From the homepage, you'll find a link to the contest. There you can learn how you can register and how you can qualify for a free trip. Our first trip is a package to Universal Studios Hotels in sunny Orlando, Florida. Please pop into the website to get more details. There are several ways to enter and we'll be announcing a winner.

Special Guest: Kristin Karst of AmaWaterways

James Ferrara: Of course, that is a perennial favorite destination: Florida, then Orlando, and then within Orlando, Universal Parks and Resorts. Staying at an on-property hotel at Universal is a big deal, and we're giving it away free. That's a little appreciation for our listeners. But Mike, let's turn to our special guest today. It's my pleasure to bring you a visionary woman in the travel industry who has created one of the most beloved products there is in our industry. That is a river cruise experience from a brand called AmaWaterways. Today we're privileged to have with us the Executive Vice President and Owner of AmaWaterways, Kristin Karst. Welcome, Kristin.

Kristin Karst: Thank you so much for your very kind introduction, James and Mike. It is such a pleasure and honor to be here together with you, and a big welcome to all the listeners.

James Ferrara: Well, thank you. It's lovely to have you here. If we can't meet in person, the second best thing is to have us together chatting on this podcast. There's so much to talk about. River cruising is one of the fastest-growing products in the travel experience marketplace. People just love it. It has an incredibly high return rate and satisfaction rate for customers. Everyone who goes on a river cruise basically says they want to go on another one. We're going to talk a lot about that over the next few minutes. But we usually start with some rapid-fire questions for our guests just to warm us up and to give our listeners a sense of who you are, and maybe to deliver a few tips from a really experienced traveler like you. Mike, you want to jump in?

Rapid-Fire Travel Insights

Mike Putman: Kristin, we'll ask you a series of questions. If you could just give us a brief answer on each of these, we would love to learn more about your travel likes and habits. The first question is: what is your favorite hotel brand or your favorite hotel property?

Kristin Karst: Four Seasons used to be my favorite, as it reminded me of the quality and attention to detail that we have on board our AmaWaterways ships. But now, I think that my new favorite is the Small Luxury Hotels of the World, as they are truly unique in their decor, reflecting all the countries. And that is basically what we have with our ships. You know you're on AmaWaterways; it is very consistent, but every ship has its own personality and signature. It's really wonderful to be on board. Again, it is consistent quality and a genuine personalized experience.

James Ferrara: We talk a lot on this podcast about more authentic travel—no tourists. One of the things that we try to remind listeners about is to seek a real sense of place when you're going to a destination. Don't stay in a box, but stay in some place that feels like Paris or feels like Rome. I think that's the point you're making about your ships and also about these Small Luxury Hotels of the World. They feel like where you're going. That should be something all travelers seek out.

Kristin Karst: Very true.

Mike Putman: Moving along, Kristin, what is your favorite destination?

Kristin Karst: From all the places in the world—and I really love all the countries and the variety of cultures—I would pick Africa. The reason is that Rudi, my partner in the business and in life, is also called the godfather of river cruising, and we went to Africa for our own honeymoon. I have to say, being there on board the Zambezi Queen on the Chobe River—a side of the Zambezi River where the four countries of Zambia, Zimbabwe, Botswana, and Namibia meet not far away from Victoria Falls—that is truly the ultimate place in the world. From the wildlife, to the way you see the stars from the sun deck, the sunsets, the polite smiling people, wonderful food, culinary items, and great wines—this is what I would pick.

James Ferrara: Wow. I think you made us all jealous. Those of our listeners who are familiar with river cruises probably think Danube and Rhine, maybe Nile. But the destinations in Africa that you just mentioned—I think people don't realize that you can actually river cruise there.

Kristin Karst: We are pretty much also the only river cruise line to have this ship there, the Zambezi Queen. It is really a rare finding and very small with 28 guests and 14 suites. You're pretty much on your private yacht. It is perfect for families to charter or for groups. Really the ultimate river cruise. If you have done everything else, I would say go there, because then I don't know where to go next.

Mike Putman: Kristin, that didn't make me any less jealous! All right, Kristin. For this next question, you're going to have to leave out AmaWaterways as a potential answer. Other than AmaWaterways, what is your favorite cruise line?

Kristin Karst: Of course, I would have said AmaWaterways! I love small-ship cruising. I love everything about Windstar, SeaDream, and Seabourn. This is my type of cruising. I also need to say I'm coming from the city of Dresden on the Elbe River in Germany. On the Elbe River, you will find the oldest and largest fleet of steamboat paddle-wheelers. So not really a favorite cruise line, but it is the largest fleet. I'm very nostalgic when I think about this because when I was a child growing up on this river, that truly instilled the love of river cruising in me. That's why it flows through my veins.

Mike Putman: Oh, very nice. One other question for you: do you have a particular tip or a hack, a piece of advice that you might be able to give our travelers out there just to help them travel better? Something you do, or something you pack to make your experience better?

Kristin Karst: I usually have to check a suitcase as I'm traveling for a couple of weeks at a time to many different destinations and climate zones. But I always have a carry-on with a change of clothes, my laptop, and a nice large scarf. It is always chilly on airplanes regardless of how warm the country you're coming from or going to is. That is sometimes also true with hotels or different rooms. I think a scarf is such a key travel item that we decided to gift each guest with a special scarf from AmaWaterways. We hope it keeps them warm on their trip home and brings back special memories every time they wear it. We change the design and the color every year. Many of our loyal guests, mostly the ladies, are very proud of their colorful collection. It makes them keep coming back to see what's the next one.

James Ferrara: That is such a great idea. As travel industry folks, we're always looking for gifts that can be memorable but also useful. I've never heard of that one and that is a great idea.

Kristin Karst's Personal Journey and the Founding of AmaWaterways

Kristin Karst: I think you really have to come on board very soon to see the current one, James. Or your wife needs to come as well.

James Ferrara: Yes, you're twisting my arm. You've touched a little bit on your personal journey and I know our listeners are interested to know more about you. How did you get to own a river cruise line? Tell us a little bit about your personal journey.

Kristin Karst: It's probably a little bit unusual compared with many other executives. As I mentioned, I was born and grew up in Dresden on the Elbe River many years ago, which was then still part of the former East Germany. In 1989 the wall came down, and that was the year I graduated from college. I have a degree in hospitality and tourism management and started right away with American Express. American Express was the first company coming in after the wall came down. It was perfect: an American company in my city of Dresden. I joined the local travel agency that was created there and became the manager of leisure travel. There was huge pent-up demand. Imagine all the people that were behind the Iron Curtain; before, they could only travel to the East, and now they were able to travel to the other side of the world. The business was booming and we did very well. I got transferred to the headquarters of American Express in Zurich, Switzerland, where the Platinum card had just started. I created all the special offers for card members and worked with incentive companies, putting trips together for IBM, Pfizer, and UBS around the world. From there, I moved to California where Rudi had just started as the first president of another brand—the V brand, I can say—and I was the second European coming to join there. It was a very small office in the beginning. In 2002, together with the late Jimmy Murphy, then the owner of Brendan Vacations—the largest tour operator on the West Coast—we felt we wanted to create our own river cruise line. We wanted to create a product of quality over quantity that we would love to enjoy ourselves with a very genuine approach. The products out there were very good already, but there were many things missing. We wanted to get a younger clientele to come on board. We didn't just start having bicycles on board, but we also introduced free, working Wi-Fi. Many potential guests would be business owners themselves or people who work hard and could not afford not to have internet. We didn't want them to spend time outside in an internet cafe. Why not have it on board? So we brought all these things on board. We started to have our very first owned ship in 2006, the AmaDagio. Now the company has turned 20 years old this year. It was an amazing journey. In these years, we have built 25 ships that we now own and operate. The future looks extremely bright because so many guests come on a river cruise for the first time and say, "Why did we wait for so long?" Everyone wants to cruise. We keep the groups small and include many different shore excursions. It's all about personal choices. The food is spectacular. We serve the finest local wines with lunches and dinners, and have our special sip-and-sail hour with cocktails and sparkling wine in the morning. We started a huge wellness program five years ago because everyone wants to expand their lifespan. It's not just about active hiking and biking; we do wellness classes on board. The beauty is that on an ocean, you explore different countries and go from country to country. On a river, you are going through the countries. It's an immersion. Post-COVID, this is what people want to see: unspoiled areas of the world on a smaller scale.

The Unique Experience of River Cruising

James Ferrara: I think our listeners, maybe not all of them, are familiar with the river cruise experience. You can see something all the time from the ship. You are going from city to city or town to town, and where you dock, many of these older towns—sometimes medieval towns—were built around the waterfront. The ship is coming in right in the middle of things. Not in a port an hour away, but you walk off the ship and you're in the middle of everything. Can we go deeper into the river cruise experience versus ocean cruising or land touring? Why take a river cruise?

Kristin Karst: Ama means love, and we put love into everything we do. We are cruising from one beautiful town to the next, always surrounded by vineyards, castles, or castle ruins. You're really surrounded by spectacular scenery. Imagine you're cruising through the river valleys surrounded by the steepest vineyards, like the Moselle area, with the brightest fall colors—the leaves turning into bright red, orange, and yellow. Then we dock in the center. There is no tendering. In half a minute, you are on board or in your stateroom because the ship is small. Ship size on the Douro in Portugal is a hundred guests. On rivers like the Rhine, the Danube, or in France—the Rhone, the Seine, in Bordeaux—it is between 120 and 150 guests. You step on board and you become part of a family. We physically double your leisure time because you do not have to think about logistics. You don't have to think about taking a train or an airplane or booking a guide. We have done everything for you. Every morning when the ship pulls into port, while you are having a wonderful breakfast, we take you out and you have different choices of excursions. You can go by bus on a city tour through Vienna, explore the town by bike with our bike guides, or go on a culinary or hiking tour. The groups are very small. We group by active, medium-paced, or gentle because we have all age groups on board. The eight-year-old grandchild wants to travel together with mom and the eighty-year-old grandma. They might all do different excursions, all included, but at lunch or dinner, they will come together at a table and share the stories of the day. Then maybe grandma goes to the sun deck to enjoy a glass of local wine while having her feet in the hot tub, and the younger ones go explore the region again in the afternoon. Everything is there for you. You can do everything, or you can enjoy doing nothing and reading a book on your balcony. Usually, in a seven-night river cruise on the Rhine or the Danube, there are four to five countries included. Or maybe you decide you want just to be in France. That's just a three-hour TGV ride from Lyon to Paris. Many clients today decide they want to spend more time in Europe. They want to travel longer after missing the last two years. People have started to work from home; they can work from the ship while enjoying. Internet is complementary and works all the time. This is the luxury: to discover destinations while being pampered on board with remarkable cuisine and with the genuine care of a remarkable crew. Our cruise managers also travel with you from the pre-land program. Let's say you're on the cruise from Nuremberg to Luxembourg, cruising the Main River, the Rhine, and the Moselle. Maybe you want to be in Prague prior to Nuremberg. Our cruise manager is already there, welcomes you, does all the tours with you, and is with you on the transfer to Nuremberg. They are with you all the way on your seven-night river cruise through the heart of Europe, and then in Luxembourg, the cruise manager goes with you to Paris as our post-land extension. You have your personal concierge with you all the time. If guests come with food allergies, the chef and the crew get to know you from day one. They will always take care of your needs, so you never have to be concerned that you're going from one restaurant to the next where they don't know about your allergies. Our guests really appreciate that.

James Ferrara: Well, I'm the guy on the balcony with the book. Maybe Mike is in the yoga class early in the morning. But we're both coming together later in the day for the local wine, I can assure you of that. What time does the bar open?

Kristin Karst: The bar closes when the last guest goes to bed. This could be sometimes two, three, or four AM in the morning.

Mike Putman: Oh, don't encourage him, Kristin!

Exploring World-Class Itineraries

James Ferrara: What are some of your favorite itineraries that Ama offers? I know it's like asking you what your favorite children are, but give us a few examples.

Kristin Karst: My favorite itinerary is always the one I'm currently on board! Being European, I love the exotics. I love our Mekong River cruises to Vietnam and Cambodia. I'm in awe of the gentle Cambodian people, the culture, the ancient sites, all of it. However, since I was born in the former Eastern part of Germany, I also love our Gems of Southeast Europe itinerary. That takes guests along the lower Danube River from Budapest into Croatia, Serbia, Romania, and Bulgaria—countries that were once behind the Iron Curtain. There are so many layers of history to discover. We put our guests in contact with the local people. We go to local homes where the mother of the home gives a banitsa cooking lesson. Coming into fall now, imagine our post-cruise land packages into Transylvania in the Carpathian Mountains in Romania. Imagine being there during Halloween night! This is just an amazing part of our world—so unexplored and so lovely. And on a river cruise, you do not get seasick. It is physically impossible. You don't waste time lining up to get on and off the ship. You unpack once. It truly combines the best things between land touring and ocean cruising.

Onboard Accommodations and Staterooms

Mike Putman: One thing our listeners are curious about is what the staterooms are like. Could you describe those and contrast them with what they might find on a typical ocean liner?

Kristin Karst: We usually have three passenger decks and a sun deck. On the lowest deck, we have entry-level cabins with a picture window. You cannot open it because you're physically on the water level, but you're close to the swans. You're never below water. I would always recommend the middle or top deck because these staterooms have either French balconies or our twin balcony staterooms—a French balcony and a step-out balcony where you can sit outside. The majority of our staterooms are more than 200 square feet, with the suites being about 350 square feet. On our larger AmaMagna, the owner's suite is 710 square feet, and our larger suites are more than 460 square feet. There is something for everyone, no matter if you come as a couple or a solo traveler. We also have connecting staterooms on some of our ships because some of our partnerships are with Adventures by Disney and Backroads. We can accommodate families of three, four, five, or six. The bathrooms have beautiful large showers and, in the suites, two sinks.

The Future of Travel and AmaWaterways

James Ferrara: Kristin, we've come through some historic years. We were faced with a pandemic, low water levels this past year in parts of Europe, and the devaluation of the Euro and Pound. Now some people are concerned about inflation or a recession. What do you see for 2023 for travelers and for Ama?

Kristin Karst: Let me start with 2022, because the Christmas shopping experience in Europe this year is going to be exceptional with the American dollar being so strong against the Euro. If you go there and do your Christmas shopping, you have all the gifts for your family when you come back. That is paradise. Looking into the future, the future is very bright. There is so much pent-up demand with people anxious to reunite and celebrate missed milestone events. More travelers are looking for sustainable ways of enjoying nature and visiting destinations off the beaten track. River cruising delivers all that. We have some wonderful specials. It's our 20th anniversary, so we have a 20% off offer. Or we offer choice of either free air or free land on many departures. Your travel advisors are extremely educated and professional, and we love to give them everything we can so they can send clients on board our ships. With all of these promotions, the value is there. People want to travel today. Airplanes are full and hotels are full. In Europe, we are coming into the slower season, which is much more authentic. Fall and winter are extremely charming and the water levels are perfect right now. Why wait longer? Make the booking now and bring your friends and family along. We look forward to welcoming you on board for a most magical and unforgettable river cruise experience.

James Ferrara: Kristin, you are the world's ambassador for river cruising. You have the love and the passion. Your aptly named company AmaWaterways reflects your love for travel and for travelers. Thank you so much for being with us.

Kristin Karst: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate this.

Mike Putman: Well Mike, I'm inspired by Kristin Karst and AmaWaterways. How could you not be? I'm seriously ready to book a trip. I haven't done a river cruise yet. I've been on about 62 cruises, but never a river cruise.

James Ferrara: Well, I'm about to go on a shakedown cruise, which is the first sailing of the cruise ship. I have to go to the shipyard in Finland and sail the ship out to Southampton, England, where she gets introduced to the media. I'm going to be on board a ship that carries 4,000 passengers—the new Carnival Celebration—but there will only be 40 of us on board. It's a unique experience. Even with that facing me, my mouth is watering over this river cruise experience. We have some exciting news.

Mike Putman: On the Celebration, there are probably 2,000 staff. If there are only 40 of you, you're going to have 50 staff at your beck and call.

James Ferrara: That's the way I like it! Speaking of celebration, we have something to celebrate. We have a new contest out to award one lucky listener a fantastic vacation to Universal Studios in Orlando, Florida. You can find the details at the bottom of the homepage on notouristsallowed.com. We're going to have one question each week. If you answer it correctly, you gain five more entries into the contest. Mike, what is the question of the week?

Mike Putman: The question is: how many ships does AmaWaterways have in service today? You have to have been listening to the podcast and paying attention to Kristin. Go to notouristsallowed.com and answer the question there to get five entries into the drawing for this Universal Orlando hotel stay on the property. And speaking of great things, we have our special deals diva, Jessica Deverson, standing by.

Jessica Deverson's Adventures in Egypt and Jordan

Jessica Deverson: Hi guys! Is the "great thing" my deals or me in general?

James Ferrara: I would say you firstly and the deals secondly.

Mike Putman: That is the answer from a married man. Very diplomatic.

James Ferrara: Jessica, before we get into your offers, I want to talk about your recent trip. From your photographs, it looked amazing. You looked like Lawrence of Arabia in Egypt and Jordan. Tell us about that.

Jessica Deverson: It was definitely a trip that was a lot of work. I need a vacation from my vacation. It was very hot and very dusty. I spent a week in Egypt and then a week in Jordan. I visited all the major sites: the pyramids at sunset, an ATV ride through the desert to see the pyramids at sunrise, and we saw the Sphinx. We went to Karnak, Luxor, and Abu Simbel. It was tons of walking and travel time—planes, trains, boats, and automobiles. We had an amazing Egyptologist join us. In Jordan, we had a private guide and a small tour van. Seeing Petra was super amazing. I actually tore my meniscus in between the two trips. I blew out my knee, basically, and was walking around with a knee brace for the second half of the trip. I still walked at least seven miles a day of hiking and climbing. I climbed the sheer face of a cliff just to get that Petra shot you saw. Anything for the "gram," right?

James Ferrara: Not only is this a great travel report, but Jessica brings a whole other perspective as a millennial. You also recently spoke on travel for millennial and Gen Z travelers, right?

Jessica Deverson: I did. It was a really good time talking about who that demographic is and how their purchase choices translate into travel choices.

James Ferrara: Where were you for this event?

Jessica Deverson: I was in Cancun at a really beautiful resort—the Breathless and Secrets Resorts. A hurricane decided to come through and got our flights canceled. Unfortunately, I was stranded at this lovely resort with a beach, pool, and endless drinks and food. I had to stay a couple of extra days. I never saw the rain once—just lovely sunrises and sunsets from my balcony. Total torture.

James Ferrara: This is like when my daughter had to quarantine in a five-star hotel in London. AMResorts and the AMR Collection have incredible all-inclusive resorts. We should bring them on at some point. Jessica, let's hear what you have in terms of travel deals.

Exclusive Travel Deals and Offers

Jessica Deverson: I have three deals for you today. One of which is AmaWaterways, which I just heard you talking about. But first, I'll tell you about Sandals and Beaches Resorts brought to you by American Airlines Vacations. For a limited time, you can save up to 65% on vacation packages, plus you'll get an additional $1,000 instant credit and a bonus 25,000 AAdvantage miles with your stay. To receive this offer, you simply book a vacation package with air for three nights or longer. The offer is valid at Sandals Royal Barbados, Sandals Grenada, Sandals Emerald Bay in Great Exuma, and Sandals Royal Bahamian. To get those 25,000 bonus miles, you must have a valid AAdvantage number when you book. That promotion is only valid for reservations booked through your travel advisor.

James Ferrara: 25,000 miles is enough to get a domestic round-trip ticket. It's like getting a free ticket.

Jessica Deverson: Next up we have Royal Caribbean. They have an October offer where every guest will save 30%, and for a limited time, kids sail free. This offer is available until the end of the month—they expire on Halloween. For the 30% off, it applies to any sailings departing November 4th or later. For "kids sail free," it is any sailings between November of this year and April of next year. Airfare to Alaska and Europe is also available right now; you'll get up to $500 off per person on airfare for Europe and Alaska sailings departing next year, January through July. Lastly for Royal, there is a military heroes offer for police, firefighters, and military. You'll get special rates on select sailings. You have to book with a travel advisor to access those. And then for AmaWaterways: they have some really great offers. First is complimentary land packages. Through the end of the year, when you book select '23 and '24 sailings on the Europe, Mekong, or Egypt rivers, you'll receive a two, three, or four-night free land package. For the rest of 2022, they're running deals where you get two-for-one cruise pricing. You purchase one full river cruise fare and the second guest is free. If you're a solo traveler, they'll waive the single supplement. This is available on 2022 sailings, but you must call your travel advisor for the specific list of dates. There is also an offer for frontline medical heroes and military heroes as well. AmaWaterways has special discounts for them, but a travel advisor has to apply the special promo code.

James Ferrara: Between your appreciation for Ama and Kristin's passion, we're not allowed to have you two in the same place because we could have an explosion! Thanks, Jessica. Those are great summaries.

Closing Remarks

Mike Putman: I'd like to thank all of our listeners for tuning in to episode fourteen of No Tourists Allowed.

James Ferrara: What is allowed is for you to enter our drawing for the free Universal giveaway in Orlando. Remember to go to our website, notouristsallowed.com. Thank you for being here. Until next time.