The Real Jamaica, July 4th @ The Beach, & How Losing Your Way Is The Best Way To Travel

In this episode Mike and James tease secrets out of Donnie Dawson, Deputy Director of Tourism (Americas) for Jamaica, Spring 2022's most popular destination. What to eat, where to stay and how to find the real Jamaica. Plus, the city of Los Angeles defeats a pandemic pet peeve and forces the return of hotel housekeeping service. With July 4th around the corner, we look at a classic American boardwalk beach vacation - with 50’s Doo Wop style. And we reveal a favorite strategy for unforgettable travels: Get Lost!

Mike Putman: Welcome everyone. I'm Mike Putman.

James Ferrara: And I'm James Ferrara. This is the second episode of No Tourists Allowed. Thank you for spending some time with us today. We've got some great information.

Mike Putman: We have a very powerful guest that we'll be bringing on in a few minutes. And you've got two powerful hooks already. It's about the pants, isn't it?

James Ferrara: Yeah, it is.

Mike Putman: Listen, we're going to make every one of these episodes better as we go along. We're learning. I just want everyone to know that this is episode number two, now new and improved with pants. It was a nice summer day last week when we did this and I was in shorts. Someone snapped a photo of me doing this podcast and it got out there, and it looks like I'm not wearing pants. So, new and improved for sure. We've got a lot of things to talk about this week. One of the things is the city of LA. A government actually did something that I think is very positive for the travel industry. James, why don't you share the news from LA this week?

New Regulations for Hotel Housekeeping in Los Angeles

James Ferrara: Sure. Well, Mike and I do quite a bit of traveling, as you guys know. On a recent trip, we were bemoaning—and Mike was listening to me kvetch, that's a good Yiddish word—about the fact that many hotels have reduced services during the pandemic, ostensibly because they didn't have enough staff. But I felt that hotels have done it to cut costs. They were continuing to do it even though it was no longer a staff shortage issue; they were just enjoying the benefit of having cut costs. Now, the Council of the City of Los Angeles stepped in. They have declared that within the city limits, hotels must provide daily housekeeping as a standard amenity unless the customer opts out. Of course, hotels say this is all about giving customers choices, but the City of Los Angeles says fine, give them the housekeeping, and then if they choose to opt out, they can. A lot of this has to do with workers. A lot of people lost work and lost hours when hotels reduced services. So it's a benefit for the community of hotel service workers, but it's also a benefit for travelers. My whole point here, Mike, is that this really affected the experience of travel at hotels. You couldn't get your room cleaned, you couldn't get room service, just curtailed services which makes for a less enjoyable stay.

Mike Putman: Thank goodness the city of LA came in and said you have to give a choice. And the choice is the traveler's choice, not the hotel's choice. So, applause for governance from the city of LA, and we hope that other cities and municipalities will follow suit, if not states as well. Also on the news front, just this week, James' company, InteleTravel, has made it to the top 100 travel retail list. You know Booking Holdings that owns Booking.com, and Expedia Group, and American Express? They're at the very top of the list. This is the top 100 out of tens of thousands of travel agencies, travel websites, and travel retailers. So, we made it not only into the top 100, but the top twenty-five. I'm very proud to say.

James Ferrara: Thank you for bringing it up.

Mike Putman: I bet this year, when the next rankings come out, it'll be significantly higher with all the growth that's taking place at InteleTravel. So, congratulations on that point.

James Ferrara: Thank you, sir.

Guest Spotlight: Donnie Dawson of the Jamaica Tourist Board

Mike Putman: Next up, we've got a very special guest from Jamaica.

James Ferrara: Well, Mike, we're at that point in our podcast, the segment that we reserve most weeks for a very special guest. I mean a very special guest this week. You've brought us someone that you've had a long relationship with who is positioned to really give us the inside view on maybe the most popular destination we have at the moment. Mike, can you make an introduction for us?

Mike Putman: Yes, absolutely. Thank you, James. I'm very proud to bring on the show a very good friend of mine for many, many decades, and a great golfer on top of that. His name is Donnie Dawson. He's the Deputy Director of Tourism for the Americas for the island of Jamaica. Welcome, Donnie.

Donnie Dawson: Thank you, Mike. Glad to be here.

Mike Putman: Yes, glad to have you on No Tourists Allowed. So, Donnie, tell our listeners a little bit about your role in the tourism sector with Jamaica.

The Role and Strategy of the Jamaica Tourist Board

Donnie Dawson: Great. I really like your title, No Tourists Allowed. As my title suggests, I'm in charge of all the sales and marketing activities for the Americas, which includes Canada, the United States, and Latin America. We have a staff of about 40 persons. We have an office in Canada and the headquarter office here in Miami. Most of our BDOs work virtually from home and we have a GSA in Latin America that's based in Mexico City. My role is far and wide. As I tell people, the Jamaica Tourist Board really owns nothing. We don't own a hotel room, we don't own an airline seat, we don't own a jet ski, we don't own a donkey. What we do own is a brand. That brand is Jamaica. Our job is to make as many eyes and ears hear and see that brand. We do that in a lot of different ways. Reaching out to the retail travel agents is a main focus as they are sellers of travel. We interact with tour operators who package all the hotels and airlines together. We reach out to airlines. The most important ingredient in what we do is airlift. If we don't have airlift, we're still an island. There are only two ways to get there: to fly or take a ship, and the most convenient way is to fly. So, it's important for us to have good airlift coming in. We do general advertising to create that awareness, but my job is varied.

Tourism as Jamaica's Primary Industry

Donnie Dawson: Tourism is the number one foreign exchange earner for the destination. It is top of the list in employment. When you speak of tourism, it has far more reaching effects on the economy than just what you see with people working in hotels. There are linkages to farmers and linkages to the people making crafts. It has far-reaching linkages within the society of Jamaica. So tourism is by far our number one industry.

Mike Putman: That's great. Let's talk a little bit about the island itself. I will tell you, and anybody that's ever asked me this question will second what I say: people ask me, "Mike, what is your favorite destination? If you had one place to go, where would it be?" And I have said for years and years, it's Jamaica. I love Jamaica. There's a lot of different sides to Jamaica. People ask me what makes it my favorite destination. For me, it is several things. One is the proximity from the East Coast. The second is the culture that is there; it's so unique. There are so many different cultures that make up the Jamaican people. There's beautiful scenery and beautiful beaches, but there are a lot of islands in the Caribbean that have that. That warm culture—where does that come from, Donnie?

A Diverse Cultural Heritage and Warm Hospitality

Donnie Dawson: Michael, you said something there that's very important. The Caribbean is made up of beautiful islands. I get the question all the time: what sets Jamaica apart from the rest? Yes, we are beautiful. We have mountains that go up to seven thousand feet, beautiful beaches, and nice rainforests. But what makes a destination different from the next? I always come back to our people and the warm hospitality our people emit. We're just warm, welcoming people. You can go to many destinations around the world and the food is great or the accommodations are great, but if the local folks are not inviting, you don't feel welcome. In Jamaica, you feel welcome. You feel that we want you there with us to enjoy a good time. You've been to Jamaica many times, Michael. You and I play golf together. One of the things that we look forward to is playing golf in Jamaica because it comes with a caddy. The Jamaican caddy adds that extra element of excitement to the game. If you make a bad shot, we all laugh together. It's the warmth of the Jamaican people that separates Jamaica from the rest. Jamaica was colonized first by the Spaniards. Christopher Columbus found his way to Jamaica and the Spanish colonized us first. Then around 1655, the British came in. We've been a British colony up until 1962 when we gained independence. As a matter of fact, this year we're celebrating sixty years of political independence from Britain. Along the way, of course, African slaves were brought in to work the sugar plantations. After the abolition of slavery, we brought in indentured servants from India, and then the Chinese came in, and Middle Easterners came in. Jamaica has been settled by a myriad of ethnic groups: Chinese, Indians, Africans, Europeans, and Middle Easterners. Our motto is "Out of many, one people." Although that melting pot of our people came in, they brought their cuisine. You can go to Jamaica and have some of the best Chinese food you've ever had in your life. You can have some of the best Middle Eastern food you've ever had in your life because they've used and infused all their different dishes. One of my favorite things to do in Jamaica is eat.

The Flavors of Jamaica: From Jerk to Global Infusions

James Ferrara: All right, now I am entering the conversation. You're talking about my favorite thing. As I'm sitting here listening to you talk about that melting pot of cultures, that's exactly what I thought of: the delicious food in Jamaica. I'm craving a little ackee and bacon right now.

Donnie Dawson: You know, the Indians brought several things to Jamaica. They brought in curry, of course. Here's some trivia for you: the Indians are the ones that brought marijuana and cannabis to Jamaica. They also brought in the mongoose. The Indians came in to cut the sugarcane when slavery was abolished. They didn't want to go in the sugarcane fields because there are snakes. So they brought a mongoose in to kill the snakes. Now we can't get rid of the mongoose.

James Ferrara: The marijuana helps with the fear of the snakes too, I hear.

Donnie Dawson: That helped. And guess what? We cultivate even more now today. But let us stick with the food. The Indians brought in the food. And I am no kidding: some of the best Chinese cuisine is in Jamaica. Mike, you've been to Jamaica a lot; I don't know if you've ventured out and gotten any Chinese food, but it is out of this world. One of the more popular dishes—James, this is for you—is the process of jerk. We do jerk chicken and jerk pork. That process was handed down over the centuries from the escaped African slaves that we dubbed the Maroons. Jerk was a process of curing meat and then cooking it. Mike and I have always indulged in a lot of jerk eating while we're playing golf.

James Ferrara: You sure are hitting that sweet spot of mine. A little jerk, a little pepper pot. Our listeners, I took a look back at our bookings from a little bit earlier this spring until now. We book about ten thousand trips a week. For this year, Jamaica overtook Mexico as the most popular destination for our travelers. I'm talking about the Mexico of Cancun and Cabo and Cozumel and Puerto Vallarta. Yet this spring we booked more Jamaica than anywhere else.

Donnie Dawson: I'll get a raise for that quote alone.

The Excellence of Blue Mountain Coffee

Mike Putman: It is a very popular place and there's a wide range of accommodations. But before we leave the food and beverage topic, talk a little bit about what I think is the best coffee in the world: Blue Mountain Coffee.

Donnie Dawson: Blue Mountain Coffee is grown in the mountains above Kingston. It is grown at an elevation of over five thousand feet. I think it's the soil, Mike, but the flavor, the aroma, and the taste of Jamaican Blue Mountain Coffee is bar none. It really is excellent. If you get to Jamaica, you ought to take some home. My mom used to do the coffee, but she used to percolate it differently than how it's done today. It was somewhat like a coffee press, so you really get that strong body.

Mike Putman: I asked another local why when you have Blue Mountain coffee, it's not just the extraordinary body and flavor, but there's almost a type of euphoria you get after drinking a couple of cups. Their suggestion was that because ganja is often grown in the Blue Mountains very close to the coffee fields, it could be that the bees are cross-pollinating or something of that nature. This could be why Jamaica is such a popular destination.

Pop Culture and Celebrity Connections

James Ferrara: In popular culture, we associate Jamaica with all kinds of good things, including celebrities and the James Bond tradition. Mike, I know you're a big fan.

Mike Putman: Yeah, I'll let Donnie the expert talk about it, but Ian Fleming, who was the writer of the James Bond series, lived in Jamaica for a large portion of his adult life. I think his home has even been turned into a resort. Is that correct?

Donnie Dawson: Yes.

Mike Putman: I forgot the name of it. GoldenEye? You can actually stay there. It's a very upscale resort, very nice but very small. I know that President Clinton stayed there after he got out of office. So you can actually stay where Ian Fleming wrote a lot of the books. There are also several locations where James Bond films were shot. I think even the recent one was shot there.

Donnie Dawson: Ian Fleming wrote the majority of his James Bond novels from GoldenEye. He was good friends with Noel Coward, who also lived in an area outside of Ocho Rios called Oracabessa. Ian Fleming lived at GoldenEye and he wrote most of his James Bond novels there. The first novel that he wrote, Dr. No, was filmed entirely on location in Jamaica in 1962. A lot of celebrities have lived in Jamaica and made their home there. There are a lot of recording studios because Jamaica gave the world so much. If you pull out a world map, Jamaica is a speck. On that speck, it always amazes me that Jamaica had the world's fastest man and woman. Jamaica gave the world reggae music through Bob Marley. This little island gave the world jerk food. In addition to that, all the celebrities have homes in Jamaica. Ralph Lauren has his home at Round Hill outside of Montego Bay. We can name a whole slew of celebrities that live there. The other person that has a home in Jamaica that Mike and I pass is Johnny Cash. He used to live at Cinnamon Hill in Montego Bay. The island captures a lot of that allure where people of influence live and create. There's a lot of anecdotal information. One of the guys that I became friendly with was recording there. Remember a guy named Cat Stevens? He did most of his recordings in Jamaica. They are still recording there at a studio in Port Antonio, which is on the eastern tip of the island, called Geejam. A lot of artists still go down there to record: Alicia Keys, etc. Not a lot of people know this, but Geejam is also a small boutique hotel where you can stay and listen to these persons record. Jamaica is always a buzz with excitement. One of the natural wonders we have is river rafting on a bamboo raft. That was started by Errol Flynn in Port Antonio. He saw farmers bringing bananas down from the mountains on a bamboo raft. He said, "Why don't you put seats in the bamboo raft and bring people down?" That's how the river rafting started. It's not the white water rafting people associate with. You go down a lazy river in a nice jungle surrounding.

James Ferrara: I did that, Donnie. I was on a cruise and we called at Falmouth. Outside of Falmouth there's rafting at Martha Brae. It was so beautiful and relaxing. It was one of my favorite things I've ever done in Jamaica, outside of eating, of course.

Mike Putman: Back to Johnny Cash. He spent the majority of his later years in Jamaica. There's lots of rich heritage around his stay there and his interaction with people in the Rose Hall area, even attending a church and singing with the folks. He was very involved in Jamaica. In the US, you didn't really hear about that. I think they're still renting out his house for special events.

Donnie Dawson: Yes, they do, Mike. I'll tell you a quick story. Cinnamon Hill is one of the golf courses that Mike and I play at. His house is on holes number 12, 13, and 14. When I used to play golf there a lot, we used to play later in the afternoons because it was a little cooler. When we would get there, he would walk with his wife, June Carter. We would stop and say, "Good afternoon, Mr. Cash," and he would say, "Good afternoon." He always had a smile and said, "Donnie, don't hit any balls in my house." I've exchanged pleasantries quite a few times.

James Ferrara: That's a big deal to Mike and me because we just visited the Johnny Cash Museum when we were together in Nashville a month or so ago.

Mike Putman: But Johnny Cash's house was safe from Donnie's golf swing because his house was on the left-hand side of the fairway and Donnie always hits a big slice. For non-golfers, the big slice goes right. So it was always safe. I will tell you this: when he was still alive, one of our mutual friends, Senator Noel Slowly, and I were playing golf. I did not know Cash lived there. As we were going down the hill on number fourteen, he said, "Do you know Johnny Cash?" I said, "Yeah, of course." He whips the cart across the fairway and slams on the brakes. He goes up to the door and just starts banging on it. "Johnny, Johnny, it's Noel, come out here!" Unfortunately, he wasn't there. I would have gotten a chance to meet him firsthand.

Donnie Dawson: You have to go back there one day. There is a lot of memorabilia in there. Old photographs and stuff like that inside the house. It is owned by the Rose Hall estate. You should take a trip in there.

Donnie’s Secret Travel Recommendations

James Ferrara: I was going to ask Donnie for his favorite secret place in Jamaica, but this kind of qualifies, doesn't it? I haven't heard of Johnny Cash's house before or being able to visit it.

Donnie Dawson: My secret hideaway place? If I speak about it, it's not secret anymore! I tell you, I get the question all the time. Where would Donnie go? There are no more places that I would like to just relax. I love to relax in Negril. I love to play golf, so I always want to have some time in Montego Bay. I love to eat, and some of the best restaurants on the island are in Kingston, the capital. I am from Kingston, so I enjoy going there just to eat. If I want to pull out a book and read War and Peace cover to cover, I'll go to Port Antonio, find a nice cottage, and not leave for a week. There are so many aspects to Jamaica. It's hard for me to say here is my one favorite spot. It's such a diverse island. It's only four thousand four hundred square miles, but it's very diverse.

Exploring Diverse Accommodations: From Villas to Inns

Mike Putman: The accommodations are very diverse, too. You can go rent a house, which I did when my kids were growing up. We would go down and rent a house that would have multiple bedrooms—six bedrooms, five bedrooms—almost like mansions. They would have a professional staff like a cook, a maid, and a butler. It was just a great way to vacation with other families. You have your own private pool and it was a great experience with small children because you can use the facilities there and eat when you want. That's one of my favorites, but let's talk about the wide range of accommodations. A lot of people think of Jamaica as being the place that you go for an inexpensive all-inclusive, although there are some very nice all-inclusives as well. This show is really about not being a tourist. I think our listener profile is made up of people that travel a bit more than normal. Donnie, can you talk us through some of those other types of accommodations?

Donnie Dawson: Accommodations are as wide and varied as the landscape of the island. You can find those small, intimate inns tucked away off the beaten track. You can find the luxurious all-inclusives, and the luxurious non-all-inclusive resorts. But what is extremely popular is the private villas. You can find villas on the ocean or in the mountains. Each villa comes fully staffed with a cook, a butler, a housekeeper, and all the attendants you might want. You can live a life of luxury inexpensively. A five-room villa shared with five couples might not be as expensive as you think once you break it down. What I like is getting off the beaten track and staying at some off-the-wall resort down on the South Coast. There are accommodations down there that are rustic and what I call casually elegant—outdoor showers and things like that. We have accommodations to suit every pocket and taste. I like "No Tourists Allowed." I'm a tourist when I go to Jamaica and I try to find a place where I can blend in so I don't feel like a tourist, but part of the whole landscape.

Achieving an Authentic Jamaican Experience

James Ferrara: Everyone is looking for something different, right? But the one plea that we make on this show is to have an authentic experience. What is the point of traveling far away from home only to try to recreate home? It's sort of like an American fantasy of what a place should be, but it's not actually the place. Those all-inclusive resorts are incredible, but if you're going to go that route, we ask our listeners to get off the resort a bit. Hire a driver, go on excursions, and ask the driver where to eat or where to go dancing. Try to experience the real Jamaica.

Donnie Dawson: James, you must be talking to my wife. She has that same attitude. She would say, "What a beautiful resort, the service is excellent, but I want to get out." She and I share that adventure of getting out of whatever resort we're at and seeing what's happening outside. We like to sample local food. In Jamaica, it is so easy to get a car or a driver to take you into a small village. One of the fun things to do is visit the rum bars. Every village and every town in Jamaica has crossroads, and in that crossroads, there's a rum bar. People go there and talk about local politics or happenings. If you want to know what's going on in that area, you go to the rum bar and listen to the local gossip. Then, while you're in that rum bar, the food starts to come out. Every rum bar has a kitchen in the back. It's not a restaurant, but it's cook-to-order. You might have some curried goat, jerk chicken, or ackee and saltfish. You can have some fried fish and bammy. I'd like your audience to try a food safari. Every area has a different type of food. In Port Antonio, the concept of jerk started at a place called Boston Beach. You have to get there before twelve o'clock in the day because it finishes. You get there early and eat the best jerk pork or jerk chicken in your life. That is the authentic jerk. Then there are other areas where you can get Escovitch fish—snapper with bammy made from cassava, or festival, which is a fried dough. Then you go into another area and you get curried mutton. Guys, I could talk about food all day.

James Ferrara: Some of the great memories of my life are discovering truly authentic and local cuisine. I can't remember anything I ever got from room service or sitting around at the pool. Please everyone, take heart. Your travels will be more fulfilling and more memorable with this approach.

Mike Putman: Get outside the gates when you go to a resort, not just in Jamaica, but in any tropical destination. Everybody's got to use good common sense when it comes to safety, but do yourself a favor and get outside the gates. I was in Mexico a few months back for my niece's wedding. There were people that flew into the airport, went to their all-inclusive, and did not leave the gates until they got on a transfer back to the airport. It's just such a shame because you don't really get to experience true culture. That's what non-tourists do. They get out and experience not just the foods and the sites, but the people. You can have an honest interaction and see how little difference there is between yourself and people all around the world. That is part of the magic of traveling.

Donnie Dawson: You pay a lot of money to go on a trip. To lock yourself in that hotel compound is a travesty. Get out and see what's going on around you. Meet the people and dive into the food. See and touch where you are.

Golfing in Jamaica: Annie's Revenge Pro-Am

Donnie Dawson: Thank you for this promo spot. The Jamaica Pro-Am, called Annie's Revenge, happens the weekend before Thanksgiving. This year it's November 16 to 20. It's in Montego Bay. We're staying at the beautiful star Grand Hotel and we're playing two golf courses: the Half Moon Golf Course and the Cinnamon Hill Golf Course. It's a pro-am format, so a pro brings three paid amateurs to play the tournament. Our title sponsor is Cobra Puma. It's four nights—you come in on a Wednesday and leave on a Sunday. It is all-inclusive; everything is included, all your meals and all your golf. You can go to the website at jamaicaproam.com to get all the details. It's a lot of fun.

Mike Putman: You meet a lot of great people and everything's taken care of. Even when you're on the golf course, Donnie gets local restaurants to bring in some of that jerk chicken, some patties, and other things. There are drinks on the course and his staff is there to help. It's just an awesome experience. Donnie, you have been so gracious with your time. On behalf of James and myself, thank you. I know you're a busy man running all over the world sharing the good news about Jamaica.

Donnie Dawson: My pleasure, Mike and James. We have some of the best airlift coming out. All the legacy carriers fly from all major gateways nonstop into Montego Bay and Kingston. We're inaugurating a new service in November from Miami into Ocho Rios for the first time on American Airlines. The name of that airport is Ian Fleming, believe it or not. It's nonstop from Miami, so that is going to be fantastic if you're staying in that area. Air access is the most important thing. We have air connectivity from all regions of the US, as well as on some low-cost carriers. It's inexpensive to get to and from Jamaica. Thank you guys for having me.

Destination Pick: Wildwood, New Jersey

James Ferrara: Thank you so much, Donnie. It was a real pleasure to have you. It's hard to stop talking about Jamaica, Mike, but let's talk about our pick for destination this week. We took a look back at about 10,000 trips that were booked in the last week. We found one that is very interesting and not so well known, which is part of the ethos of our broadcast. It is particularly good in honor of the Fourth of July weekend. That is a place called Wildwood, New Jersey. This is not Snooki's Jersey Shore. It is a place of wide, white sand beaches. I remember the walk from the hotel across the beach down to the ocean; I was exhausted by the time I got to the water. It has a beautiful boardwalk with amusement rides, eateries, and shops. What's unique about this particular beach resort is they've preserved the 50s and 60s era motels. They are in this space-agey architecture that is actually called "Googie" style. It feels like a time warp down there in Wildwood. They pair it with classic car shows and the big thing is doo-wop music. They have doo-wop band concerts. If you are a fan of doo-wop music, this could be a really interesting destination. There's even a doo-wop museum in the village. The motels are the Starlux, the Ala Kai, the Panoramic, and the Pan American. It's here where Bill Haley and the Comets performed the first rock and roll song, "Rock Around the Clock," in 1954. That's the spirit of Wildwood, New Jersey. It's a classic American summer beach vacation.

Mike Putman: I'm sure there'll be some corn dogs and hamburgers there. Let's wrap the show up with a travel tip. James, I know you've got one for us.

Travel Tip: The Art of Getting Lost

James Ferrara: Each week we want to give you something to do as a traveler—maybe a new app, a certain practice, or something off the beaten path. My tip today is this: get lost. I'm not being rude, but it is something I say all the time to travelers. Think about stepping outside your comfort zone. Put down the map for a minute, put down the guidebook, and go for a walk. Of course, stay safe and be smart, but head down an avenue where you don't know what's there. Go to an area of town, get yourself lost, and then find your way out. I guarantee you that this is the way to discover incredible places and have incredible experiences. Some of my best travel memories happened when I got lost. I was on a trip in Morocco, in Marrakesh, and we were heavily guarded by the tour operator. Every step was planned. We were only allowed to go where they took us and in the shops they recommended. One day I decided to go back to the souk in the middle of Marrakesh, but this time alone. They begged me not to go. I made them take me and drop me off, and I just started walking. The souk is a labyrinth. It's a maze of little alleys. I found myself deep into the souk in a deserted alleyway, and then all of a sudden the call to prayer began. The beautiful sound of that voice drifted down the alleyway. I turned a corner and there was a sixteenth-century mosque and courtyard where people were beginning to assemble to pray. It was beautiful to look at and beautiful to hear. The sun was setting and casting a glow down the alleyway. It was an incredible moment that I've carried with me always as the essence of Morocco. Getting lost can really make your trip.

Mike Putman: That is a good tip and a great way to end this show. Thank you all for listening. We will be back next week with more exciting guests and travel tips to help you save more and experience a greater trip. Remember: No Tourists Allowed.

James Ferrara: That's right. Thank you for listening to No Tourists Allowed.